#twinmumlife when you are a twin.

I’m going to be chatting with Juliet. Julia is a twin herself but went on to have twin daughters. I thought it’d be interesting to discuss her upbringing and how it defined her parenting relationship with her twin daughters.

Transcript
Georgia:

Welcome to the OSHA twins podcast. I'm your host, Georgia Mitel today, I'm going to be chatted to Judea. Julia is a twin herself, but went on to have twin daughters. I thought it'd be interesting to discuss her upbringing and how it defined. her parenting relationship with her twin daughters. Stay tuned. Hi, Julia. I just wanted to, again, thank you for joining or for doing the interview with me on OSHA twins podcasts. Now, the reason why I wanted to interviewed you there is she's in a very unique a very unique position as a twin mum. I don't, I can't comprehend the relationship that my daughters may have all the complications or issues that might come across for being a twin but do you, there is a twin and also has gone on to have twins. So I thought this would be a really good conversation for teen parents, multiple parents to kind of get a bit of perspective so we're gonna start from the beginning. Cause you've had to quiet, even though you live in the UK. Now you, you were born in

Juliet:

In Zambia?

Georgia:

Zambia, that's it? So you've yeah, so we've got really cool. This is gonna be a really cool interview. I'm really looking forward to, I've been looking forward to this interview. So. Give us a little insight to what childhood was that for you in Zambia?

Juliet:

Yeah. So I, yeah, I just wanted to start by saying thank you so much for having me on, and I really enjoy this podcast.

Georgia:

the kids

Juliet:

it's so great to have this. I just want this resource for twin moms, you know, and to empower parents because when I first had the kids, I felt so overwhelmed and I was just desperate to hear other twin parents stories. So I think this is a really good resource for anyone out there. So just thank you.

Georgia:

that's the whole point. So your non identical twins with your sister.

Juliet:

Yes. So non-identical twins. and my mum had my old, we have an older sister, so, and then two years later she had us twins and four years later she had my baby sister. So we're four girls and me and my twin sister in the middle. And yeah, we grew up I was born and we grew up in Zambia in Africa and actually my parents still live out there. And two of my sisters and their families. And yeah, so my, what was it? My father actually passed away when I was six years old. So he, he was born in Zambia, but his parents had immigrated from India. after he passed away, my mum took us all, all of us girls down to South Africa in Johannesburg for a year, she wants to do Bible school down there. and then she met she started dating and met my stepdad. and so by the time I was eight years old, they were married and we were sent to a missionary boarding school in Zambia when we, when I was eight and my baby sister was four and my older sister was 10. So I don't know. if anyone has experienced missionary boarding school out there, Christian Christian missionary boarding school. but it was quite obviously disrupting for us as children. So we would be at school for, you know, three or four months and then see our parents in the holidays. yeah. So, and then I went to another Christian boarding school for secondary school and by the time I was 17, I decided to come to the UK to study. So I came and did my a levels here in university and post-grads whatever. And then, yeah, so that's my story, basically.

Georgia:

We're going to flesh it out of it. We're going to flesh out. What is your earliest like twin memory with your sister and where you was kind of awkward for like, Oh, okay. We're twins.

Juliet:

I don't actually have that many memories of being, you know, very young. and I think it's because it was quite traumatic. My childhood was quite traumatic, so I think I've. kind of blocked out a few of those memories. And I was talking to my twin sister about it a couple of weeks ago, but what I remember, I always remember being a twin. I remember that it was quite Like a status thing actually in Zambia. So my mum was quite well known. She was called in BEVA, which means mother of twins. So when we would go to town and everything, everyone would say, Oh, well, I'm wondering, hi, how are you, how that wins? You know? So it's, it's very, it's very much it is. I mean, it's a lovely thing to have twins. It's kind of special, isn't it. And even so, so I always, always can remember that. My twin sister and having a twin sister and being a twin is very much part of my identity. And when we, so when we, before we went to boarding school, we were at a government school, just down the road from where we lived. And in that class, there were two other sets of twins.

Georgia:

cool.

Juliet:

So there were three sets of twins in the class, and we were really good friends with one of the sets of twins. My twins was telling me and she said, you know, that. We as, as twins got on really well at that point, as far as I can remember, I can remember being in boarding school. and because it was missionary boarding school, the class sizes were really small, so there's only 10 kids in the

Georgia:

Oh, well,

Juliet:

So we were actually in the same class for all of our primary education. And then it was any secondary school that we were separated. but throughout my time in, in primary school, I remember. Being really resentful towards my twin sister and competitive with her. And I guess being jealous as well as well of her. And you know, I was kind of trying to think about why that was, and I think a lot of it had to do with just desperate me, desperately needing to be loved, to be seen and to be heard. And when you're a child in boarding school, You're just one of a hundred other kids. You're not, you know, which is so different to being a child at home where your parents are there to dedicate their love and attention to you. You don't have an adult who dedicates their love and attention to you when you're in boarding

Georgia:

Yeah.

Juliet:

And I was so desperate for that. I was just desperate for love and attention. but also I had, I have a mother who is very emotionally unavailable. And so she probably I think definitely subconsciously, so not, not aware, but pitted me against my twin sister. So my twin sister was very much the golden child and I was the scapegoats. And so in my eyes my twin sister was very beautiful. Couldn't do anything wrong. And I was kind of the ugly one who got everything wrong and got told off all the time. And I think I really resented her for that.

Georgia:

So when can I just ask when you were in the your class. In primary school, was it naturally that you were just always banded together as, okay. You're the twins, you sit over there. You're going to always be together. And then it was like, Oh, your sister can do this, but you can't. Or was that a lot, was that entrenched in the school as well? Or were you kind of more treated like individuals?

Juliet:

I think we were very much treated as individuals. And even though we were in the same class we chose, I think most of the time we would choose to sit next to each other or do often. I mean, again, I don't have many memories of it. Well, I can see one of the teachers used to take photographs and so we have some photographs of like on a Saturday morning doing we used to do handwork club sewing and embroidery and stuff, and me and my sister sitting together doing that. And so I think we still were a safe space for each other, even though we had you know, these other issues. And we used to spend time together in that way and choose to be part of each other. And I think for me yeah. And then, so I, when we were, I think later in secondary school I did feel very competitive towards her until about the last year. Then we started to get on really well. So up until that point, we had totally different sets of friends, even

Georgia:

about to oxide. Did you, did you find the same in primary school? You said you was always together and then you went into secondary school nor separated. Did that make you feel liberated that you kind of had to own spaces? kind of, again, we, as you said, we in full shot own individuality, or did you see as. He was always kind of keeping track of what your sister was doing the other side or in the other room, or how did, how did you find that change from primary to secondary school? Did it help?

Juliet:

Yeah. So I think I was able just to be myself, we were in a totally different class. And so we didn't see much of each other at all. And even I think in the first year we shared a dorm. I mean, we shared a dorm probably up until the last year when we was prefects, but So, you know, at nighttime and stuff would still be together, but we did have different groups of friends and yeah, I think it was good for me to explore who I was separate from her. I think it was quite a broken relationship, you know, it wasn't but then at home, again at home, we would. You know, holidays would be quite intense when you're, when you're at boarding school. Cause it's like, you just want to enjoy yourself all the time. So there's not a lot of time to kind of process what's happening and you don't, I couldn't really talk to my parents about how school was going or my groups of friends, or like they didn't really know any of my friends or you can't really talk to them about this stuff. Cause it's like, you've been wanting to tell them for months. And by the time you get to holidays, it's like, well, you kind of forgotten about. Yeah, everything that's happened at school. So yeah, it's kind of weird. It's kind of weird, but I think, I think it probably was our choice to be in separate classes. And I think we probably both, it did us quite a lot of good, you know, because by the end of secondary school, we did start to really bond and we got a lot closer and we started to share the same group of friends in our last year. And then when we was old, I came to England to do a levels. And my second year she came over to do her eight levels and we lived together for a year before I went to uni and we just got on really well then really well.

Georgia:

I guess.

Juliet:

we still get on really well now, even though the distance, even though the distance.

Georgia:

Also. Did it make you contemplate your own parent or your own parenting that you went through? What was the main thing you knew that you didn't want to do with your twins from kind of your experience?

Juliet:

Yeah, absolutely. I think for me having twins in some ways, it's like a second chance, you know Which is amazing. And actually when we found out we was having twins, I was nine weeks pregnant. and we had a scan and Jake, my twin sister was the first person I called and we were both stopping on the phone, just so happy that I was having twins. And and then of course you hit with, Oh my gosh, twins, and then it's fine.

Georgia:

Yeah.

Juliet:

you know, and also being in England, you know, having no support you know, it, it's not been easy. I think the other thing that hasn't, hasn't been easy is that it's brought up a lot of stuff from my childhood. And I have thought a lot about you know, How I was parented and how I wanted to do things differently. And I think at first there was just this really gut instinct that I need to make roots. I have to, you know, we have to settle down in our neighborhood. I want my girls to go to a school up the road from me. I don't want them to be separate from me. I want them to have a family around them constantly. and I also really longed for them to have a community that they would have friends up the road that they would know, you know they would have aunties, you know, kind of like no, no neighbors. And That we would be able to create a community around us that they could grow up in and be safe. And that's really what you know, I long for, and it is slowly happening. And we moved when the girls, a couple of years ago, we moved into the house we are in now and we've got a little allotment down the road and there's a school up the road and we're slowly getting to know families. There are actually two families with twins on our road. That's nice. And they were just making friends and getting to know people. so that was one of my gut reactions. Was I just longed to have them with me as much as I could. And part of that, I decided to stay at home and be a stay hi mom.

Georgia:

Yeah.

Juliet:

right. Then be working at the same time. And that in itself has been really challenging because I got a lot of identity, I guess, from work,

Georgia:

Yeah, of course, of course.

Juliet:

Is has been really hard. And then but yeah, I think I just felt really overwhelmed when I had the girls and I realized that, you know, I did have PTSD after having them and a bit and depression and things, and I'm only really dealing with that stuff. Now I'm in therapy now, but one, one of the things was that. When they were born, they were taken away from me right away. Like, I think you had a

Georgia:

Yeah. The same. Yeah.

Juliet:

So, you know, I had the emergency C-section at 32 weeks. And as soon as they came out, they were taken out of me, you know, ed started to cry and I was able to see them for literally, I think it was like two seconds. It felt like it was probably about a minute. And then they're whisked off and I'm taken to, you know, while I'm so not and taken through recovery. and then I didn't get to see them until about 8:00 PM that night, six hours after the set or seven hours after the surgery, because I had trouble in recovery getting my temperature up and stuff. yeah. And so it was, I longed when I had kids to keep them close to me, but out it was out of my control that they were taken away from me and separate from me for five weeks until they came home. And also in the NICU, they're separate from each other. Aren't they in like their own.

Georgia:

Incubator.

Juliet:

And I really struggled with that. and but yeah, I kind of thought, are they going to be able to bond, you know, if they've not spent those first five weeks together, and I guess I had those fears that are, they're not going to like each other, or they're not going to have that twin connection. And I was but at the same time I knew that I couldn't force that on them. I wanted them to have their own relationship. Yeah. So I, and also, like you mentioned it already, I had this idea that I'm not going to compare them, right. I'm not like, which is totally impossible. And so I think having, having twins for myself has given me compassion on my mom, you know, and allow me to see the difficult situation that she was in and in parenting for kids at a very young age herself. And she was a young mom in her twenties. and how difficult that is and how difficult it is to not compare. You know, who's sitting up first, who's walking first. Who's the noisy one. Who's the one who's kind of flight making themselves known.

Georgia:

Mm.

Juliet:

you know, but I think what I've started to do is be gentle on myself and gentle on them and allow them. To change, you know, and to see that, that they grow and they change. So I don't know if you find it with your turns, but there's definitely like, they go through cycles of one where they're crying a lot and really kind of whiny and clingy. And then couple of months later, it's the other one, you know? And so I'm just getting to know them and allowing them the space to grow and not putting them in the box. I think that was the other thing. So I really felt with my mum is that she put labels on me from a very young age. I felt I was the rebellious one. I was the naughty one. And even by the time I left at 17, by the time I left home, I thought I still had those labels on me. and so, you know, I think I really am trying to give my girls the space to grow into who they are. And for me too. Get to know them without trying to label them too early,

Georgia:

I, as, as I said, we mentally compare our, our twins. I think you, you, anyone with multiples, you do, but how, how have you kind of not made that spill into, as you said, like labels or Cray in, as you said, creating a situation where this is a good one, must have not Yuan or do you know what I mean?

Juliet:

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's separating behavior from their character. Isn't it? So like allowing them to see when they've done something wrong or made a mistake. But it's, you know, we don't make it mean anything. Like, it doesn't mean anything about who you are. you know, this is just something we've done. And I think I was quite a critical and judgmental person before having kids and having kids is like, I've had to change, you know, because.

Georgia:

humbling experience happened?

Juliet:

absolutely. It's like, it totally breaks you, but I have to be more forgiving on myself and, and so that I can create an environment where they can make mistakes and it's okay. you know, and we can, even now I've got to the point where I can start to laugh about things, which, you know, just the so long, I just want to react in anger. Like, why have you done this? You know? so yeah, I think. You know, and, and thinking back to boarding school as well, and not being able to process feelings was a huge thing. So you push down your feelings a lot as a kid and that really has an effect on later life. Like you're not allowed to. so because you're not allowed to feel something you're not allowed to process something, you just kind of pushed down your own needs a lot. And you're more worried about like the needs of others. And, and as a mom, I've recognized that in me that I will go to all the lengths to make sure everyone is happy except for myself. And so I've had to learn to put in. Self care and boundaries, even with the girls and kind of what I want to show them is mom, isn't perfect. And I need time and I'm not like, like just, you know, a person that that is always available. I also need time for myself and to take care of myself. And I used to feel really guilty about that because they would act out in little games with each other, like, Oh, I'm mommy, and I'm going to lie down and rest now, you know,

Georgia:

Oh, gosh.

Juliet:

But then at the same time, I feel like, Oh, it's great to show them an example of, you know, a mum because my mum was busy all the time, you know? And so it's nice to kind of show them an example of actually rest is important and even your mum needs to rest and have some time to herself. but yeah, the emotions thing, I w I'm really trying to give them space to express their emotions and allow them to get angry or to, you know, cause what's amazing about toddlers is that they'll like massively overreact about this thing. And then it's like five minutes later, they're fine. And I'm still

Georgia:

yeah, exactly. I'm not over it. Okay. Thanks. Another question I want to ask you is how do you manage their relationship as twins, with regards with knowing and your experience as being a twin? Is there anything you implement between them? That's kind of as a, as a reaction of what kind of, how your relationship with your twin sister was.

Juliet:

Yes. So I think I want to foster that and encourage their relationship as much as possible. and you know, I am having this conversation with our nursery teacher at the moment. She's really lovely. And I get on really well with her. but she is desperate to get the twins to be independent, to do stuff separately. And she says it's really hard because. Every time, you know, one of them goes to the toilet. The other one wants to go with, or every time I asked one of them to do an activity, the other one wants to come and help. and so, you know, I was just thinking that for me personally, I see that they have each other as a safe space, they have each other and that's real gift, you know, and I don't want to take that away from them. So as much as she can, you know, my, my kind of. Well, I wanted to say to her was to just allow them to do that for now. And also, you know, this year has been so disruptive for them. They were in nursery for a month and then they were taken out of it for a whole year. And now they've only been back a couple of weeks before they've got holidays again. So nursery still is a really new environment for them and I think they just need each other to feel safe. And I kind of think how amazing is that to have someone. Throughout your whole life. Who's experienced the same thing as you at the same time you did. And you can have that safe space. So as much as possible, I do want to encourage that with them. But I also know I don't want to meddle too much as well, so I don't want to be too involved. I want them to, like, I want to allow them to be like, to make friends with each other and to enjoy each other without me going, or you must get one with your sister or, you know,

Georgia:

The new line at the moment is I'm not your best friend and you're my best friend or so I always say, you know, one of the will come on me. I'm not, I had this best friend anymore and I'm not. That's fine, but you're still sisters. So you'll, you won't be friends for the moment, but you'll figure it out. That's kind of my line at the moment, because I try to, I grew up an only child. I've got little siblings now, but my, my little brother came along when I was 19. So, you know, I grew up on my own and even I had a lot of cousins, so I D I, I never felt alone. So I was, I was quite happy being an only child was one of the few only children. I was like, Oh, do you want to brother? This? I'm like, no, I don't actually, it's quite great. So, I don't know what is that to literally grow with a sibling? So my main, for me, my mind figure is resp give each other the space when you need it. So yes, you're, you're, you're close. You're twins, but if your sister saying she doesn't like you doing something, or she doesn't want you to do it, respect it and just give her that space. I know they're young, but I'm like, literally that's my like, respect, justice, the space. She doesn't want to play with you. Even though sometimes it goes out one, it comes out the other, but that's kind of what I'm. Fostering.

Juliet:

Because I think autonomy is so important as well. Isn't it? Like they learn that they can say no, or they've had enough, well, they need a space even from their twin. but yeah, mine are going through a really similar thing at the moment where it's like, mommy, you're my mommy, but not Tilly's mommy. I'm like, ah, that's not how it lasts. but yeah, that was what was I going to say? And I thought I would get really anxious when they would fight and stuff, you know, and argue. but actually I'm realizing that, you know, that's kind of normal sibling behavior as well, isn't it? And it feels really normal. So but I think sometimes when something happens and I'm not in the room, which is very often, and I kind of come in and try and understand the situation. What used to happen to me as a kid was I would automatically get blamed no matter what's happened. So I'm trying to be really careful to like, okay, what happened? Let's talk, you know, like kind of figure out, you know you know, what's, what's been happening rather than just to think, cause it is actually really easy now and I'm seeing how easy it is because what, one of my twins is perhaps more What's the word independent or outgoing, you know, and she can maybe be a bit more, Oh, I can't even assertive, I guess is probably a good word for it. and so I kept in my mind, I think, Oh, is it her who started it, but I need to check myself, you know, and be like what actually allowed them to tell me what's happened. And. And they do forgive each other really quick. I mean, they, they just move on, you know, often without me having to say anything or do anything about it.

Georgia:

yeah. The next toy comes out and they're like, Oh yeah, we like this. Let's go play. Yeah.

Juliet:

It's a learning. Cause, cause I remember thinking as well about dressing them the same. Like we would dress the same a lot growing up and I really wanted to do that with the girls, but from, from, you know, really young age, they started to want to wear different things, you know, and ed would be like, Oh, I love black. I just want to wear black everything, you know, until he would be like, no, I like pink. And so as much as I could, I mean, we don't have a ton of clothes. I allowed them to. You know, choose what they wanted to wear and be different if they want to. And most cases they will choose to wear different clothes, you know, on a daily basis, which is interesting to

Georgia:

It is interesting. Cause say, would they go nursery? They, they requested because they looked so like that they wear different clothes so they could tell them apart. And it's funny because go into nursery. My girls don't care what they wear. Sometimes they will pull out a specific top, but then when. Is that they just know that it's not nursery. Cause when I'm putting them in a dress they want to wear the exact same thing

Juliet:

difficult. It's difficult because it is, it can be on a daily basis. It's different. So yeah, I have exactly the same some days. They're like, whenever you want to wear the same thing and some of our clothes are hand me downs, so we don't have the same thing. Well, like sometimes I've bought it in a set, like, especially pajamas. And that would really stress me out because sometimes they do really want to wear the same thing and I want to be able to give them that, you know, just as kind of prevents as many meltdowns as possible. but yeah, it is. And I think, you know, that's one thing I would definitely say about being a twin mom is that I definitely feel like I'm failing every day. Hi. I do not know what I'm doing, honestly. Yeah. You know, you just feel that Well, I, I do anyway and I, and I, but I'm learning that it is just a learning curve, like everything, and I can learn the same time as they do. I don't have to have all the answers. We'll just learn together.

Georgia:

What advice coming from as a twin mom, yourself and being a twin, what would be like your big, like what you encourage other multiple impairments not to do, or the dad told you.

Juliet:

Yeah. Oh, it's hard. Isn't it? Because I think, yeah, I think the advice that I kind of give myself and I definitely give other parents is to create a safe space for them to explore who they are and have all the emotions, you know? but. You know, when the, when the girls were young, I had a lot of expectations of what motherhood should be like. And because I was a twin mum, I wasn't able to do a lot of those things. I kind of felt like I'd have loads of mum, friends and go to all the groups. And I tried, but it was too much. It was really, really too much. And I think. and I was at the time following a couple of twin parents on Instagram who had like these massive accounts, but you realize afterwards they've got maids and nannies and, you know, cleaning ladies. And so they give you this expectation of what being a twin parent is like, actually, when you down to the nitty-gritty it's, it's not, for me, it wasn't anything like that. so I think find your rhythm, like how it works for you as a family. Work out what your values are. definitely, you know, like I wasn't able to take them swimming cause you have to have two adults, you know, like I grew up swimming, you know, my I me and my sisters, that's what we would do all day. Cause we had a pool, you know, in our house at our house in Zambia. so I was really gutted not to be able to take the girls swimming and but yeah, so. It's just things like that, which you, maybe you had hoped to do as a mom, but you've just kind of got to let go of and be gentle with yourself for, and so we just found one group in the end that we went to for about a year between the age, like when the twins were about 18 months. and then that group closed, but it was just one morning a week. And it was enough for me, you know, because it's, it was hectic, getting them ready, getting on the bus.

Georgia:

I can relate. I can relate. Cause they literally, where I lived before I lived in Charlton, I moved down to show. and I, and I never got into the rhythm of getting into a baby group. When I moved down here, I kind of pushed myself. I was like, no, come module to try this. And luckily I found one that was really, really nice. And that's another thing. Some of them are groups are not actually very nice. You know, everyone was very cliquey. You go in there and you're just, everyone's just looking at you. And I'm like, Ooh, supposed to be new moms together, but I guess not, but I found one really, really nice one. And I've forced myself to get myself out that door to get, because it can be a mission. It can be a mission. It can be a mission. Oh my God.

Juliet:

Group that has lots of volunteers because the groups that I would go to that I didn't enjoy often, they would just be like the one person who was like volunteering, who was making it happen. like NCT mom groups and all the moms would be sitting in a circle on chairs with their one baby on their lap. And I'd have to sit on the toddler mat, which was like a couple of meters away with my twins because they weren't sitting up at that time. And I, so I would, I remember the one meeting I went to, I never went back, but I had the whole hour I was there. I hadn't, wasn't able to get a cup of tea or anything because I'm down here with my twins and I didn't really talk to anyone. And I just thought to myself, I'm much more comfortable at home. I can make myself cups of tea. I can breastfeed the twins. Why am I going to all this trouble? Like when it's just too much, it was too much. So I think it's yeah. Finding what you're able to do rather than thinking what you should be able to do. but actually.

Georgia:

It's sad. It's sad. That's why I'm thinking, especially with the Panamas that I feel it for new moms, because you know, it took, I think, yeah, the cost of over a year, a year and a bit before I found a mum group I was comfortable with and then to be in a situation where you can't go to any But it's, it's definitely people don't understand how flustering it is when you're a teen mom of young kids and you go to these groups and sometimes you're like, you're trying to start conversation, but then you've got one baby trying to call off into the, so you're like, you know, you, you got turn, grab your kid, come back. And then the person has gone off to talk to somebody it's going to be so isolating. it's very, very tricky. Go into baby groups with when you've got twins. It's just, it's not fun. It takes. And the one and you're right. The one that I went to regularly that we'd enjoy it was. Lambeth run. that's the, my barber is lumber. It was lumber run. So they had paid staff. So they had always had like three or four people there. So even if I didn't didn't get talked to any parents, I've got to talk to them and they were amazing. I lovely. And then with the cops before, even the pandemic hit, that group was. Closed. And I was just like, that group was amazing. The P even the staff, you know, the staff remembered my name. They remembered the twins and they saw the development of them as well, and got really excited. Like, no, look how independent. Cause when I first went to the baby groups, the girls wouldn't leave. They wouldn't let go of my legs. They wouldn't go

Juliet:

Mine are the same. Yeah.

Georgia:

Because it was so used to just being at home. so it took a little while and by a couple of months and look at their mom when they, you know, when you first came and it was so lovely and that's like, Oh, do you know, cuts this and cuts that Bob glass, they're the best one groups.

Juliet:

Yeah. And then like, because they have more staff, you could, cause I used to have to like unload one baby and then go back to get the other, so you have someone who could look after your child and you're not just leaving them in an empty room, you know? So I just felt all of those really small details. Someone to make you a cup of tea, someone to look after the kids, if you need to go to the toilet, it just makes a huge difference. Whereas in these kinds of really big groups where there's only one volunteer running it, I just felt lost and really alone, which is what I felt at home anyway. but at least at home, I had a bit more control. But yeah, it is so lonely. I think that first year, and also you're just surviving, you know you're very little sleep for a whole year and I was just on survival mode. and I think another thing I would encourage moms, especially if you've had premature twins and they've been in the NICU is to really like allow yourself to. Grieve, you know, those things that, that didn't work out how you wanted them to. And for me, it was breastfeeding. and you know, I really wanted to be kind of an attachment parent type thing, but it's impossible with twins. You always have to leave one and go to the other and you have to be in a routine. You know, we really had a real, a crazy

Georgia:

militant of mine.

Juliet:

Yeah. Otherwise you don't

Georgia:

didn't get it. People didn't get it. And I remember Paul. My other half's family, when it, you know, go out to eat and it was in their lap time and I'm like, no. And then I was like, why are you being like that? And I'm like, no, because. It's not one is to, at any end. He and we ended up going and the girls cried the whole restaurant down and I'm looked at him and I said, do you see what I'm saying? And he'll say, Oh, the need me is like, Oh yeah, you're right. But I had to take them and let them feed it because two grumpy, snippy children, then you're disrupting their nap time. Nobody wants that. Nobody wants that. So then that time we were at home or out, or I was driving the car and there were sleeping. During that time that I was militant, I was like, do not mess it up then that time, that

Juliet:

so is there any time in the day that you would get, I would get to myself, so I was desperate to get them to sleep, you know, get them to nap in the days that I could have a bit of time to myself. And I, yeah, that's another good bit of advice as well. Is trust yourself because I would have these conversations as well with like family when they did come to visit, but like, Oh, let's go to a coffee shop. And at the time, you know, the twins were just learnt to walk and they just wanted to walk everywhere. And I said, when we can't go to a coffee shop at this stage in their development, it's too difficult. I'm not gonna be able to sit and have a coffee. They'll be like, no, no, no, come on. Let's go. And, you know, yeah, right away, the, both of the girls were up and running around and I just spent the whole half hour running around the coffee shop and you know, so afterwards they were like, Oh yeah, I think you were right.

Georgia:

Yeah, you don't need a widow. It's just, it is actually extremely tricky.

Juliet:

Yeah. People don't believe you. No. And I think I really needed validation those first two years from someone else to say it is really hard because I felt like I was saying, guys, this is hard. It's so hard. And everyone is like, ah, it's not that hard. You know, motherhood, isn't that hard. Everybody does it. it's like, no, it's really hard.

Georgia:

It's not new mum's experience, but if you asked me, is it tough? I'm going to tell you it's bloody rough. I would say the first two and a half years, but you know, everyone's different. The first two and a half years, I was a bloody mess, a mess.

Juliet:

I'm actually more a mess now because it's all come up for me, you know, and I never really dealt with it. I was just on survival mode and so I wasn't really processing it. but this year I've gone through a lot of depression and that's why I've had therapy, but that's the thing about 18 months, I started to get really angry and I'd have these like real bouts of anger and stuff. And I realized it is a symptom of PTSD. but again, because of like certain. Like things that was going on. I never got help. And I think that's the advice I would definitely give is get help. If you, if you can like tell your doctor and get therapy, if you need it. Cause for me right now, it's been amazing just to deal with all this stuff and be gentle on myself and learn to forgive myself and love my body and everything that it's been through to raise these two amazing kids. Yeah. And then I had to be really clear with my partner about what I needed as well. so that's another thing is that he absolutely loves the girls and loves being with the goals, which is great but needed to be encouraged really, to be very hands-on, especially in, in the early days. so I kind of, because we were really heavy scheduled, I set out kind of a time block where he could have them and I would just eat. you know, around his work and everything. and so that's worked really well for me because I recognize that I, I have needs too. I need you know, to take care of myself. I think as an extrovert, I really needed to be around people. And so we started to schedule as well time just to see friends like on a weekend, on a Saturday, go to, you know, before the pandemic go and spend a Saturday with some friends every once every month. just so that I would, I could get that extrovert time that I, I really need.

Georgia:

trust me. I have my moments, so I'm just like, yeah, I want to be outside. And then, so like, I don't want to talk to anybody, so I kind of bounce in between the two, but as I said, I think that was probably the most shocking thing for me. Cause I have support, but I still felt extremely alone. I didn't have anyone around me that had twins. I didn't have anyone around me that had babies in intensive care. And then you've got all that stuff going through your head, plus your thoughts, as you said, you can weave in your motherhood and stuff. And that's one thing I always say is give your time to give yourself space, time, to feel it. And sometimes social media, isn't the space, but deal with your stuff and then come on because sometimes you will project. It's your S your issues on to like other people who seem to be living their best life, and everything's easy to them, but it's just because you you've, you know, you've still got your pain and that's the thing is that it's okay. Sometimes it's social media is not the space, or you've got to find people who are just telling it as it is. No, not ever fingers looks is, cause I always say to me, for my, I love, cause I personally, I love taking the pictures. I do. I do like a nice looking Instagram feed, but my stories are a hot mess.

Juliet:

Yeah.

Georgia:

Yeah. So yeah, you got to have balance and that's my balance. Like I could not. Keep it up all the time. It's a mess. Like it's, it's hard. That's what I just tell people and anyone who messages me, I give off oxygen your question. I I'd just give an honest answer.

Juliet:

Yeah, and I think it's so great. It's great to connect with you. And the other day we had our front door locks changed cause you've had some troubles with them. And the guy who was fixing the front door is a twin that.

Georgia:

Oh, cool. You seem to always find them when you have twins.

Juliet:

and cause the pandemic, I haven't spoken to that many people for a, yeah. I just sat obviously social desk and just chat for ages about having twins. And it was lovely because it is a very unique experience. He also had Nikki, you know twins and his, a boys. And so yeah, and he said something which I think is so true, you know, he was saying that. It doesn't get easier. It just gets different, you know, as they get older. And I think that's really true. Like the challenges are different. It's not the same that you're not trying to keep them alive anymore, but there is like, you're talking about this idea of relationship and connection and you know how to show them both equally that they're loved. and, but individually for them, for who they are

Georgia:

I just want to say a big, thank you for doing this, this interview. it's been really good. It's it's, that's probably one of my, this is I probably enjoy more than anything. Is the podcast doing it? Cause I get to talk to. Different, multiple moms and parents and we get to share and relate and stuff. So I'm gonna wrap it up here and to say thank you again for doing it and yeah. Thank

Juliet:

Well, thanks for having me, Georgia. It's been great. Thanks.

Georgia:

Thanks for listening to the OSHA twins podcast. You can find me Georgia Martel at OSHA twins on Facebook and Instagram. And my website is OSHA twins.com. I'll be posting new episodes once every two weeks. And in the meantime, you can like comment and subscribe.

About the author

Georgia is a mother who has decided to live out loud after motherhood took the wind out of her! From finding out she was going to be a mother of twins, then them being born at 27 weeks (two and a half months early), it was a rollercoaster but sharing the whole experience on platforms such as Make Motherhood Diverse has reminded her that she wasn’t alone despite not feeling included in the mainstream vision of motherhood.
Georgia regularly shares the realities of being a mother of twins on her Instagram page while still craving her own piece of the world. It’s a mixture of meltdowns and giggles and Black British Motherhood in all its glory.
Georgia has a background in beauty as a qualified make-up artist and eyelash technician. She ran a beauty business providing pamper treatments for private and corporate clients, and has also worked on a multitude of events including influencers book launches for Zoella and Tanya Burr, and brands such as Wilko and Pixi beauty. Despite her love for beauty, she is fully aware of the lack of diversity and poorly executed campaigns when brands want to appear diverse.

Georgia is a confident communicator and loves to chat about all things motherhood, womanhood and diversity (or the lack thereof) in the media and beauty world, all from a Black British Londoner perspective.

Feel free to contact Georgia via the contact page.

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